23 replies to this topic

[Luketh]

LOL!

THAT has got to be some kind of a record! I've NEVER even MADE a 420 person Q!

Gratz, lol!

[mushroomer]

I made a 500 person queue line It was for a hyper twister that was 4 mins long, had exitement over 10 and only had one train. I lost my RCT2 files when i had to reset my comp or i would have shown it to you

[rct_noob]

On the Theme Park Review forums, I saw a guy build a dive machine with a queue line of around 650 peeps in the line!

[Rct2123]

I always wondered about that RCT Help, your studies helped very much. Although I usually alter a ride to fit another train if the excitement rating is high, I now know about how long to make my queue lines...

-Rct2123

[Wolfman]

Wolfman: it's not always that easy. Yesterday I was running a Mouse coaster and no matter how I timed the departures or how many cars I took off the line there was always a moment where two cars would touch in the station! Not only that, but there was always a long gap when all the cars were on the circuit and none coming into the station. I think I'll just have to learn how to 'see' blocks when I design coasters. Interestingly, on the Franks/Woodpecker "Giant Dipper@Ocean Park", when three trains are running one is heading to the lift while another shoots onto the approach brakes, and the third is somewhere on course 2 or 3. That's at full capacity of over 2000 pph, with 90-odd people in the queue, and it keeps queue times to a steady 6 minutes! Any more trains than this and they end up clogging the blocks.

Check out Jolly Roger, When you DL my most recent park here. You can see the basic configuration of a dive machine with (I think) 5 or 6 trains? Use transperant scenery to see the stations. Note block brake positions, brake run and normal track section locations. (just run a highlighted/selected track section back & forth, along the circuit, using the bulldozer arrows.) You can see what type of brake and it's settings that way.

But here's a few images on the configuration...

(Sorry to post this on your topic.)

[rcthelp]

There is lot of posting of RCT2 rides in this RCT1 topic! I think I did my study then wrote that article BEFORE RCT2 had been released.

I don't think RCT1 allowed block sections did it? And I'm almost certain that, however many queue tiles you put down, in RCT1 there will never be more than 255 people in a queue. It's a code limitation.

[rcthelp]

I aim to have 1.5 times the ride capacity in the queue-line tile length. That makes sure most of the queue gets on the ride when the gate opens and that there's enough people left to start forming a full load for the next train entering the station.

But I always tried to make the queues long enough to hold enough peeps for two trainloads of passengers.

I use a similar system, so long as there is a reasonable number of coaster trains, I tend to make the queue length equal to the ride capacity, and place the ride exit reasonably close to the rear end of the queue. The aim is to make sure that by the time the peeps have got off the ride and want to ride it again, there is some space at the end of the queue so they can rejoin.

you may want to time out how long it takes for a train to travel full circuit. (total ride time) and divide that time by the number of trains. This is so that the trains depart at regular intervals, instead of one after another.

Either that, or add more trains via block brake system, so that you can put more trains on the track, and have more departure times. This may be a bit more complicated than it sounds, because you have to create a sort of "holding pattern" on the tracks so that a brake run and a series of block brakes, (spaced apart so each train can be held if a breakdown occures.)

I reckon the best way to manage queues [for rides without block sections] is to run a train in test mode, open the ride window, look at the stats and get the ride time [as calculated by the game]. Then set the ride so that it is 'Wait for Full Load' with a minimum wait time of [ride_time]/(number of trains+1) and maximum wait time of [ride_time]/(number of trains). This produces the optimal spacing between trains on the track, while at the same time minimising the wait time for the guests. You may need to tweak the minimum/maximum times slightly to avoid the situation when there is a train still waiting to leave, with another stopped, empty one behind. This method also has the added benefit of reducing the probability of a 'statio brake failure' crash. If you get the timings just right, the front train will start leaving the station as the next train is arriving, so that the front of the arriving train never reaches the bac of the front one!

Example: if the ride has 3 trains and the ride time is 60 seconds, I set the mimimum wait as 60/(3+1) = 60/4 = 15, and maximum wait time as 60/3 = 20.

For rides with more than one station, such as monorails/trains, I use the same calculation method by adding the ride times for all the sections together to get a total ride time.

Is the blocking method you describe 'realistic' Wolfie? Personally I find coasters with block brakes almost impossible to design in RCT2 because of the 'blackspots' on the track where the train reverts to zero speed. And with my limited experience of riding real coasters, I've hardly ever seen real 'blocked' rides in action.

Yesterday I was running a Mouse coaster and no matter how I timed the departures or how many cars I took off the line there was always a moment where two cars would touch in the station! Not only that, but there was always a long gap when all the cars were on the circuit and none coming into the station.

Try my calculation method described above.

[Wolfman]

I didn't even NOTICE that this was an RCT 1 topic.
So sorry for the oversight.

But you could POSSIBLY add a third train by shortening the trains by just one car. Most likely, this would add a third train.

So while a full train of 8 cars, (32 seats) you'll generally get two trains, or 64 seats per ride cycle... That is both trains make a complete circuit.

But by shortening the trains by just one car, to 7 cars (Subtracting four seats, for 28 seats) you'll get a third train, (28 x 3 = 84 seats) the capacity has actually been increased by 20 seats per circuit.

I highly reccomend this, ESPECIALLY if the trains have no problem with completing the circuit. But I wouldn't do it if at any time the trains reach a minimum speed of 12 MPH or lower.

[Woodpecker]

Thanks for your suggestions, but I'm still stuck on train separation. rcthelp: I tried your tips for calculating train spacing, but in this coaster's case the optimum distance between trains is lowering the throughput rather than raising it! Perhaps if I clarify the situation:

The coaster in question is the rct1 version of the "Ocean Park Giant Dipper" recreation Steve and I did (forget the Wild Mouse for now). This ride is unusual in that the station is located at the end of a long finger of track running perpendicular to the side of the coaster. That is, the train makes a right-turn out of the superstructure to head for the brake run and station. The roll-out curves left 180 degrees from the station and then runs parallel to the home run until it pierces the superstructure, and navigates a couple of bends into the lift. I have separated the ride into 5 sections for ease of discussion, and noted the time taken to reach each section:

Section:

Section 1 (leaving station to cresting lift) 59 seconds
Section 2 (Entering turnaround 2) 16 seconds
Section 3 (Safety block) 24 seconds
Section 4 (Brakerun) 22 seconds
Section 5 (Brakes to final stop/unload) 19 seconds

Total ride time: 2 Minutes and 20 seconds.
Time taken to load/unload: 11 seconds.

Number of Trains: 2

Calculations:

Using your calculations, the times should be:

minimum = [140 seconds] / (2 trains + 1) = 140/3 = 46.6 (47) seconds,
maximum = [140 seconds] / (2 trains) = 70 seconds.

However this does not work in practise. Let's pretend that train 2 is full and can leave exactly 47 seconds after train 1. At this point, Train 1 is twelve seconds away from cresting the lift. Now the peeps have to wait 93 seconds before train 1 stops for them to get on. After 11 seconds, train 1 is now full; the safety bars lock, and it then waits 47 seconds before launching. As train 1 leaves, where is train 2?

Answer:

[time for train 1 to complete circuit, T] + [loading/unloading time, L] + [47 seconds wait, W]. T+L+W = 93 + 11 + 47 = 151 seconds.

Total ride time, trt: 2 mins 20 = (60x2) + 20 = 140 seconds.

T+L+W - trt = 151 - 140 = 11 seconds.

Train 2 has been sitting in the station for 11 seconds and nobody has got on.

Conclusion:

Something odd is happening. If I start the trains separated by your calculations, after one complete circuit and reloading session each, the two trains are no longer equally spaced. In fact, they are closer together. This happens even with the time taken for train 2 to load and unload, and also with other coasters. Dividing the total ride time by 2 gives a 70 second minimum wait which is intolerable to the guests. I can't add a third train without lengthening the station, further mucking up the operation, and I don't like the decreasing space between the trains in case of a brakes failure.

Are my calculations wrong or is a different formula required?

One final note:

The safety block is located as per the actual ride, which isn't half-way around the circuit. I presume Fred Church put it there because it was the obvious place for a break in the action.

Edited by Woodpecker, 11 February 2009 - 12:26 AM.

[rcthelp]

Are my calculations wrong or is a different formula required?

If I didn't mention that my calculations don't work for block sectioned rides, perhaps I ought to have done!

Is there anywhere I can download this ride from and take a look?