99 replies to this topic

[Woodpecker]

Both versions are now on the exchange, but go for Shockwave 2 v3 as it is the most recent. This is the version I mentioned in my previous post, with the blocking problem fixed (fingers crossed).

[Wolfman]

I can't seem to find the exchange.

[rcthelp]

Our Ride Exchange. You're very welcome to upload 'The VINE' there too.

[Wolfman]

I found it.

And after looking it over, I made some changes to the design that it would operate smoothly.
You can see what I changed, by viewing one of my Pirates of RCT GOLD forum topics. HERE.(<shameless plug.)
You can also DL the saved game version that has both the original and the altered version too.

Edited by Wolfman, 28 April 2009 - 04:52 PM.

[Woodpecker]

I've just been experimenting with a double station. The ride time is shorter, it runs five trains and has moreorless the same capacity as the older v3. The advantage is that the ride's flow is much better: with v3 a train was always waiting a few seconds before entering the station. This was not good for capacity as peeps were effectively stuck on the ride, unable to get off. The new system has the offload platform on the long side, just before the turn into the original onload platform, and the block outside the onload has been retained. As a result one train is loading, another is waiting outside the onload whilst another is arriving on the brakerun before the offload. However, the offload platform is ALWAYS empty in time for the next train to come in, and there is ALWAYS an empty train sitting outside the onload platform ready for the previous train to depart. As a disadvantage, the distance between the two platforms makes it difficult to profitably arrange the queue and exit paths. There is still no slowing of the trains during on the main section of the ride.

I've uploaded the double-station version to the ridex for you all to look at.

rcthelp: is there a way to attach the files to my posts? I don't want to flood the ridex with lots of versions of Shockwave 2, but obviously I do want to update the ride if I find ways of improving it, especially in this thread which is focussing on how best to implement the blocking system.

Wolfman: your advice on blocking has been good, but how do you know where to put an MCBR? Are you able to guess while building how long the train will take to complete a given section of track? Also, is it bad that I haven't put an exit on the onload platform?

Incidentally, I suspect the game is bad at guessing throughputs. With a full queue on Extreme Heights, the ride stabilises at around 3,500 an hour. With a less than full queue, it hits over 4,000 for about a minute before falling back again. I'm sure I saw the original track get 4,800 which is why in my first post I said it could do nealry 5,000. Now I'm not really sure what it's actual (or theoretical) maximum really is.

[Wolfman]

Check out my post just before yours. I sort of did my panted Wolfman Revamp on the track design. You can DL the saved game that has both your design and my alterations.

You DON'T need an exit hut on the loading platform. I had already experemented with the two-station/platform design over the past couple years, and it's not needed. (you don't need an entrance hut on the unloading platform either BTW. I thought that the mechanic needed to use the exit hut to make repairs on the loading station. Then, curiosity got the better of me, and I wondered if the mechanic would walk up the queue instead. So I assigned the queue as his coverage area. And lo & behold, up the queue he went, and fixed the stuck restraints, kicked the car to pop 'em open, radioed his aggressions to his shrink, and turned on the coaster again as he left.

No, I don't actually know where to place the chain blocks. I just provide the "future placement" points along the track as I design. Keep in mind that I may need to add a chain block anywhere, so I don't use track sections that do two things. I call those "Combination" track sections... like come out of a banked curve and into a drop using the same track section IF I DON'T HAVE TO. This also seems to cup back on the nausea ratings, so the benifits are two-fold.

But sometimes track designs can get pretty cramped, and sometimes I have to drop my personal design rule, in hopes that I don't need to place a chain block in that location. Keeping fingers crossed during the test phase as I figure out the settings for the brake run and find out how far along train 1 gets before train 2 gets stuck on the lifthill.

Edited by Wolfman, 28 April 2009 - 05:19 PM.

[Woodpecker]

Haha yeah I saw your post just after I'd submitted mine.

I've read your good article and it seems we are on the same wavelength. You'll notice that on the double-station version I replaced the final anti-rollback with a drop to enable the offload platform to be located this side of the ride. Basically, your version but with the extra station on the opposite side (this was independant thought). Due to station placement, your footprint is one space bigger (there's a whole spare square between the swoop curve and the offload platform!). Mine is the same size. While I agree that the initial drop is unnecessary, is it worth extending the footprint to delete one drop?

I'm not convinced the anti-rollback before the corkscrews is safe. If, for whatever reason, a train has to stop there then it WILL NOT make it through the corkscrews. That, in my mind, is bad design even though the previous blocks will prevent a crash. In fact, I had the same idea regarding the height of the first barrel roll and the subsequent swoop curve, but I discovered that when I forced the MCBR into action there was a higher risk that the train would not make the corkscrews. For some reason, the speed of the trains through the middle (highest point) of each corkscrew is SLOWER with a lower barrel roll, not faster as you would expect. This is why I reinstated the original height.

Regarding a couple of other changes: the high-g loops were intended. Remember this ride was supposed to be Schwartzkopf-inspired and his final loop on Mindbender at West Edmonton Mall, Canada, does pull 5gs. Also, he had very steep and twisted first drops, but I suppose in RCT it sometimes pays to be unrealistic (not a complaint: just an observation). Finally, that hill into MCBR 1 is a bit of a pig, as there's no real way to hide it's funny shape. Your version does look a bit more natural, though. I'll download it and take a more serious look at how it rides, but the changes are interesting.

Understand that I'm not a sore loser against your modifications: I'm always tweaking my designs to get the best ratings. However I don't want to sacrifice safety just to improve the look of the design.

But when I ran the trains, a few of them got stuck.

Can you show a screenshot of this happening? There shouldn't be any trains getting stuck even after an emergency stop on the MCBR: I tested this from a standing start AND with a 4mph block brake on the last square of the MCBR. The second (raised ess-bend) MCBR should take care of trains stopping on the lift.

Finally, I'm flattered that you picked my ride to do an article on, so thanks for that!

EDIT: looks like I'll have to join your forums as it says I'm not allowed to see the files attached to your post... "Arrrr me hearties!"

EDIT 2: while you shortened it by 33 feet, I knocked off a whopping 134 feet!

Edited by Woodpecker, 28 April 2009 - 06:33 PM.

[Wolfman]

DRAT! I didn't think about getting a screen shot. I was more interested in fixing the cause of the stoppings instead. (Thusly, the modified yellow curve.) So thats not gonna happen again. For sure. I tried to get it to get stuck again, thinking that it was the initial startup after the track is placed. But it must of been a fluke of some sort. It sorted itself out, and it kept running after the blocks ahead had cleared. I'm pleased to report: No fireball accidents.

The Vine is now in the track downloads area. Complete with a black background image. And I'm always pleased to shang-hi a new member for Pirates of RCT GOLD here and there.

[Woodpecker]

DRAT! I didn't think about getting a screen shot. I was more interested in fixing the cause of the stoppings instead. (Thusly, the modified yellow curve.) So thats not gonna happen again. For sure. I tried to get it to get stuck again, thinking that it was the initial startup after the track is placed. But it must of been a fluke of some sort. It sorted itself out, and it kept running after the blocks ahead had cleared. I'm pleased to report: No fireball accidents.

So when it 'got stuck', it just stopped on the rollbacks, and didn't need a reset? There was no actual stalling during the corkscrews or anywhere else outside the blocks? That's a relief. I was thinking it couldn't be that bad a design. Maybe It'll meet rcthelp's expectations for a block brake system...for the time being. Good news that there were no fireball accidents either.

By the way, what do you think about the newer 5-train operation on my latest version? All five trains have a parking spot on level track, as do yours. But is it worth the fifth train? You could easily run it with four: the reason I didn't is because the extra few seconds for the train to come out of the offload platform and navigate the turn into the onload wastes precious time when guests could be boarding, and thus potentially lowering throughput and profit. However I've only just been able to get most trains to operate at full capacity (and that on the moneyless Extreme Heights) so it's hard for me to judge. For some reason it takes ages for guests to form a queue, even if the queue only holds 30 peeps.

Edited by Woodpecker, 28 April 2009 - 07:00 PM.

[rcthelp]

I've uploaded the double-station version to the ridex for you all to look at.

rcthelp: is there a way to attach the files to my posts? I don't want to flood the ridex with lots of versions of Shockwave 2, but obviously I do want to update the ride if I find ways of improving it, especially in this thread which is focussing on how best to implement the blocking system.

Let's agree that while this topic continues, that all the versions are in the Ridex. Then maybe at the end, we can edit the Ridex to include only the last version, but include the iterations as a 'bundle' in the downloads section and put a link to the bundle in this topic.