99 replies to this topic

[rcthelp]

This topic has got me interested in coaster building for the first time in years. Wolfman, THE VINE is great to watch, the smooth flow of the cars as they crest every hill is almost hypnotic.

BUT, it does occasionally get into the situation where peeps get stuck on it. In this screenshot, the 2 cars in the red rectangle are locked onto the block brakes, and the 2 cars in the black rectangles are 'see sawing' backwards and forwards unable to reach the block brakes ahead of them. I left RCT2 running overnight to see whether this would happen.

 Iwanttogetoffthevine.png   124.87KB   45 downloads

I haven't managed to make Shockwave 2 do this. Yet.....

[Wolfman]

But no accidents, right? No unexplainable balls of fire erupting from a vehicle that operates soley on gravity, am I correct?
No bits of peep corpse strewn about? Hmm? No reason why the peeps would actually avoid the vine, I assume.
This was about peeps getting stuck... Not about accidents? The vine's accident-free history remains intact.

Did you assign a dedicated mechanic to both of the stations?
Or just one mechanic to cover both stations?

Edited by Wolfman, 26 April 2009 - 04:32 PM.

[Woodpecker]

This was about peeps getting stuck... Not about accidents? The vine's accident-free history remains intact.

Granted, but one of the other main topics of discussion was the problem of ensuring crash-free operation with the blocking system and acontinuously smooth flow of trains.

[rcthelp]

Yes, accident-free. But shouldn't we expect rides with so many block sections to be accident free?

It seems to me that rides with blocks that prevent accidents, but cause train 'stalls' are kind of inefficient and need micro-management. In that screen shot, closing the ride to free the peeps is going to release around 250 peeps onto the paths outside. And they won't be happy.

The trick which I've never been able to master, is to have blocks that prevent cashes, allow extra trains, but don't cause stalls.

To be fair, no I didn't assign ANY mechanic. The purpose of my test was to see what happened when rides broke down. So when it did, a nearby mechanic would come and fix it. Inspections would happen if a mechanic happened to be nearby.

[Wolfman]

You'll be hard pressed to design a coaster with a perfect "track" record. They all have some sort of breakdown.

Too bad you didn't witness what happened to the Vine. I'm willing to bet that one train nudged into the one ahead of it, and it lost momentum. For reasons I can't explain, after a normal breakdown like restraints stuck closed... A train will be released, then another train is released right afterwards. It's as if the first train was in the mode of BEING released, when the attraction broke down.

Then, when the mechanic fixed the breakdown, the train rolls out of the station, and the boosters take over. MEANWHILE, the station automaticly lets a train roll out after the mechanic fixes the attraction's bearkdown. To sort of test the coaster. I've seen this happen time & time again after repairs are made. (It's sort of like why the sky ride lets go of two vehicles whenever you put it into test mode.)

But this would explain why two trains would be released so close together. That the second train had to catch-up to and bump the leading train. That it simply bounced backwards, hit the last rollback block and lost the forward momentum needed to complete the circuit.

I saw something like this, taken full advantage of, by an NE designer, Freerider's The Island. A unique floorless coaster has a number of track hacks. And just before the end of the circuit. One train runs into the back of the other, Nudging it, then rolling backwards. Of course, this was all pre planned. But it's great to watch.

*EDIT*
But, as it IS, the attraction didn't actually break down. Per Se. Notice in the very image that you posted, the ride is still open.

Edited by Wolfman, 26 April 2009 - 10:17 PM.

[rcthelp]

You'll be hard pressed to design a coaster with a perfect "track" record. They all have some sort of breakdown.

That wasn't really the point I was trying to make. Obviously at some point, the ride has broken down , and after repair, peeps have become stuck. That was a surprise, considering the block mode.

I'll take a closer look and see if I can work out in more detail what may have happened. I understand your explanation of two cars leaving at omce after a breakdown, but don't quite understand how it could cause the effect in the screenshot.

*EDIT*
But, as it IS, the attraction didn't actually break down. Per Se. Notice in the very image that you posted, the ride is still open.

It was the first ride I put in the park, and is 18 years old. It is bound to have broken down at some point. Just not at the point that I took the screen shot.

[Wolfman]

To be fair, no I didn't assign ANY mechanic. The purpose of my test was to see what happened when rides broke down. So when it did, a nearby mechanic would come and fix it. Inspections would happen if a mechanic happened to be nearby.

So, you have a "roaming" mechanic then?
And no control when inspections, if any, would occur.
Only if the mechanic "happens" to be nearby at the time.
Am I right?

>Giggle SnOrT!<


Then what could you possibly expect?
Thats like setting up light housekeeping at the Waldorf Astoria.
If you don't have regular inspections, then you can count on breakdowns like this.
I'm going to chalk this up to poor maintenance habits by the park builder.
Not due to the performance of the coaster itself.

No "sympathy compensation" for you Bucko!

Edited by Wolfman, 27 April 2009 - 07:14 PM.

[Woodpecker]

If you don't have regular inspections, then you can count on breakdowns like this.
I'm going to chalk this up to poor maintenance habits by the park builder.
Not due to the performance of the coaster itself.

After the ride was fixed the peeps were still stuck, and that is the problem rcthelp is pointing out. He's not complaining that the ride broke down in the first place, since his intention was to force as many breakdowns as possible to see what happened when they occurred.

The trick which I've never been able to master, is to have blocks that prevent crashes, allow extra trains, but don't cause stalls.

In my latest edition of Shockwave 2 I *think* I've solved this problem by removing the block before the zero-g and raising the ess-bend to produce a second (jinked) MCBR . I've also raised the zero-g back to its original height to allow more speed through the corkscrews. The second MCBR allows the trains to keep flowing as train 2 crosses this before train 3 has reached MCBR 1. Previously, deleting the block before the zero-g forced trains to stop on the lifthill as the distance between the MCBR and the final helix was too far. Also, by removing the block before the zero-g, empty trains now have enough momentum to complete the corkscrew section even if they are stopped on MCBR 1. MCBR 2 is high enough to allow the train to get through the final helix from a standing start. From what I can see the only way a train could stall in the corkscrews now is if 3 conditions were met:

First, an emergency is required to stop the train on MCBR 1. Next, after the the problem is fixed and the train has moved off the MCBR, there would have to be a wheel-bearing failure before the train reached the corkscrews. Finally, the train would have to be empty at the time otherwise the weight of the passengers would probably be enough to safely send the train through the corkscrews. I'll give it a long test tonight but to be honest it seems unlikely that such a situation would ever occur. I've never seen 2 breakdowns happen back-to-back like that. I'll also pm you so you can download it and take a look - it's easier than pictures and descriptions and that way you can stress-test it to your own satisfaction!

[rcthelp]

As I said, a test. Not how I would normally run the ride. In fact, I did this deliberately to increase the breakdowns to increase the probability of something going wrong.

What I would expect from a perfect block sectioned mode design, is that peeps would not be 'trapped' on the rides, especially at the top of hills. I'd expect the trains to be held until the breakdown was fixed, and then for the ride to start up, with every train able to get 'home'.

Maybe having these expectations are why I never manage to build a block sectioned ride that I like.

In my latest edition of Shockwave 2 I *think* I've solved this problem

Remember you can upload a different version of the same ride to the Ride Exchange, just so long as the track layout isn't the same as before.

[Wolfman]

I think I'm just side tracking the topic.
Where can I get a track file of Shockwave 2?

Edited by Wolfman, 27 April 2009 - 10:43 PM.